{
 "slug": "doe-uap-d004",
 "title": "DOE-UAP-D004 Los-Alamos-Conference-on-Aerial-Phenomena 1949",
 "agency": "Energy Dept",
 "year": "1949",
 "page_count": 25,
 "source_page": "https://wearenotalone.space/document/doe-uap-d004/",
 "original_file": "https://wearenotalone.space/Season 04/release_04_documents/Documents/DOE-UAP-D004_Los-Alamos-Conference-on-Aerial-Phenomena_1949.pdf",
 "license": "U.S. Government work — public domain. Text is machine OCR from the original scan; the page image is authoritative.",
 "pages": [
  {
   "n": 1,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p01.jpg",
   "text": "--\n------\n-\n-\n-\n--\n• L.,\nU NIT ED S TATES\nA TOMIC ENERGY C OMM I SSIO N\nLOS ALAMOS, NEW MEXICO\nAuthority:\nADDRESS REPLY TO:\nNND 58378\n11ANAGER, SANTA FE DIRECTED OPERATIONS\nIJ, S. ATOMIC ENERGY COMMISSION\nP. 0. BOX 1539\nLOS ALAMOS, NEW M EXICO\nANO REFER TO:\nSFD- 3- 1\ni.:a.rch 22 , 1949\n-----\n----1\n_____,\n-------\n_____\n_\n,-1----\n-----1\n----,----•\n..., .,,_~~\n-1'.a/..-y\n- -. ---1\n1----- --- --­\n_____,_\nLt . Cndr . Riche.r d :..o.;:1doll:or n\n1-,:,,,M-..---I­\nM'S',.\"? !Ieo.dqv.o.r tero\nSn.:.1dia Bo.se\n1-1--/\nLlbuquer quo, Ect, Lc::i co\n\"N\"\n-­\n1--1~-1­\nDoe..r Cmdr . :)1.~ell:or n :\ni-,.,~0:-1-4,-N-- -- -­\n1------'-'---I- -\n­\nFurnished herevr'.th is o. Jcro..rncriyt of\n,----­\n~F. -\n- --1\nt:1e r:iinutos of t:10 co~u'erencc :1old o.t\nFILE\n-\n-I~\nLo:. Alll'D.03 ?ebr uo.rJ 16, 1949 , per to.bi:ir;\n-\n-\n­\n-1\nto c.crial ph0nono1ul..\nVery t ruly yours,\n\\ ~\n~\n4 --12~\n~ .t.r\nSid::'.Cy ~ 1-;bw/gcr , Jr .\na­\nChief , Security\nOpe r ations Branch\nE~cl :\n/\nfu; i,.di cn.tod\nDe~ent of Eno«e)' ~ eluoific~tict> Remw\n1\"fll'fllW•CY.li:2AAQC91\n~r:°\"\"o!u \"\"lit\n.~°\"'\n-­\n~ ,.,.~IIS,ff-°\"11';\n,.,\n~ <\n11When SGp\"'rut d\n~~';;,~~~~~~Mecl,(S1J\nhandle this\nZ, Cv.ss:fi CATOiltf C,WAAl) fO­\ndocument as _____ ...:...-----,--­\n3. CQO('IMlS HO OCEcv.se,hEOiwo\"'\n4.CO::~Tev..nt\n~,co\nS CUS$fllll>•-,OlftA<><nEO\nOITIIEll<Sl'fCIF'r): mu ,......\n___ ___ ..._ _\nII"
  },
  {
   "n": 2,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p02.jpg",
   "text": "~\n- ,~\nCOE'BREliCE\nOn\nAERIAL PHENOMENA\nHeld a.t 1300, 16 February 1949, 1n conference room P-162, Los Alamos Scientific\nLa.boi.\"'atory, Lo& Alamoa, Bew Mezico.\nPresent:\n4th Any:\nMajor Winn\nMajor Oodsoe\nC~ptain Reef\nl!anima,naer Mo.lldelkorn\nt1n1versity ot XevMenco:\nLa.Paa\n~­\n!'BI:\nMr.Maxlrell.\nUSAEC, 81\"00:\nMr. Morgan\nMr. Bevburger\nUniversity ot California:\nDr. Bradbury\nD.r. Holloway­\nMr. Hoyt\nDr. Me.nl.ey\nDr. Reines\nDr. Teller\n1-1r. Ilelfburger opened the contereD.Ce and s~ted that the subJect ot Aerial\nPhenomena was olassifie4 Secret 11'1tbia the mean111g of AR 380•5 mld canparable\nappropriate regulations o~ the Navy and A11: J'orce~, and tba.t oil penonnel at\nthis meeti?Jg vere properfy cleared. Mr. !l&wburger th<m 1nt1'0dueed Captain\nBeef, who briaf'ly outlined the purpoe\" of tbia meet;ing.\nCaptain Beet: It aU start d back 1n DecGmber, 1948, when w first received\n8Ql1i.e reports from same airline pilats tha.t these 6NCJ1. :firebe.lls vere sisb.ted.\nAt this s~e v~ bad no idea what to do with it or vhat it ,ran.\nWe e.pprooobf:d\nDr. LaPaz 'Who has been aqsisting us, gratis, since tbat date. Almost over two\n\"\nmonths now that he hao been assisting us, oo in order to have you get the tacts _·'\nas they ue to a sc1en-tiet, I'll let Dr. IaPaz q:plain these tbings as we have ~\n:found t.hem.\nThen you ~\ngive ua your opinion trom. theft; that 18 what we are\n'\"\ninterosted in.\nDr. La.Paz:\nI would like to ·rev1ev ubat is observed in the ca.ee ot a. conven­\ntiol'l&l. meteorite fall. Rot that I bave e.n7 )lopes of saying anytb1113 10u don't\na,l.ready kncnf, but because I regard the observational ev14ence observed by tm,\nconventional meteorite falls as providine tbp necessary bac~ for tlhat is\n?1,0t,J ob3erved. Meteorite falls (tor next minute or two, Dr. L&Paz'a cet!Jments\non recoi-d drowned out by noise trcm ditell digger immediately outeide conference\nroQm) • • • • • • • Bece.uae of eou:nd phenomena ~, the hll ot a large\nme·lreor1te wiU cQWJe great frisht among button beings neceasar1.1.y but primari~\namong animals, o~ all kind~.\n'Ihe tact toll~, by- a meteorite falling into the\n• DECLASSIFIED .....\nAll1fladlJ HM R 5 8 2J8\n•\nBJ\n'.}Jl.1f\n· r fCARA, 8atf fp/3/~\nfj(,"
  },
  {
   "n": 3,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p03.jpg",
   "text": ",\n,\n'\nConference on AERIAL PHENOMENA\nPage 2\nearth, ts as you would elt!)ect, one at rend.ool - in azimuth and elevation. I.f\nthe rad.laat t7hite is knovn., yor: can preciict the minimum angle with respect to\nthe plane of the horizon nt which the m.eteoi-i•ce path has been observed. There\nis no choice, e.s f'a.r as the ..... for direction wen rceteorites fe.11 in at\nranc1om.\nI'd like to contrast 11o·n-, at this time, thia fact with what has been\nobserved by some indivi.duals here at the co.:?lf'erence and by r.::aey of the AESS\ninspectorll, UAL pilota, special a.gents, goodness knows how many other categories\nof people.\nI choose to describe ·Ghe only one of the incidents that I vas\npereonally o. wi:~nesa to. It io the only one of the incidents that I am in a\nnooiticn to vouch fo~ on the basis of experience, dating from 1915, as a member\nof the Am~rican !>1etaor Society; w-as most certainly not a. conventioll81 meteorite\nfall. It -was the so-called St:U.--vation Peak incident on the night of December 1.2,\n19116.\n'l'iue of observation around 9;02 P.M., plus or minus 30 seconds. This\nrir0·oa11 nppeared in full intenoity instantly • there was no increase in light.\nIts color,, estimated to be somewhere arotmd wave length 5200 engstroma, .ms a.\nhue green, or yello-11 green, such ae I had never observed in meteor falls before.\nThe path ua.e a& I!.etlrly horizontal as one could determine by visual observation.\nWe have ~ pho·togra:1>h which might be some li--;; ra ot departure from horizontal..\nThe trajectory was traverse at, I am inclined to believe, constant angular\nvelocity. Just befor0 the end of the pat;h ·there we.a the very 811gb.test drooping\nof the path, that io the green fireball broke into fragments, still bright green.\nDr. Teller: And all this time the intensity uas approxiJDately constant?\nDr. !.a.Paz:: All -the time, as fa'.!.\" ae I cou.ld determine. The eye, of course, is\ne.dmitted.l.~r a very crude phcrcographer.\nDr. Teller: Rov long did the phenomenon last1\nDr. 1-.'i.Paz~\nAlmost exactly two i:;econds.\nWe have in the reports here, I brought\nthe com:plt::te file nth ma and uould be glad. to circulate them, duration measures\nin 1•ela.tion. to all observations. Fev of -these, h~rever, I believe, were\ndeter.Jlinoo under as favorable circumstancea as the duration of the Starvation\nPeak incident. Possibly I should go back and review the situation a little bit.\nBecause oom~ report, iaau.ed by the AESS, uoul.d certain]Jr suggest that I was\nprinillrily responsible for starting this whole matter\nI am glad that Captain\nReel' corrected that impression. Actually:- I YaS on an investigation in regard\nto -'che green fireball. observed on tho night of December 5th at the time the\nDece111ber 12th incident occurretl. As a :result I was keyed up; I was 'WBtehing;\nI h'.1.cl a stop vatch with me and a transit. We got into position and made\nmeasures, transit :ciee,suros, on azimuths and elevation readings; that is, we\nma.de a dm.·a:cion check, certainly within not more than tvo or three minutes\nsftor the incident occurred. To that extent, I believe, it is posaibly' the\nbest observed ot any incident up to tha time of the January 30th fall.\nDr. Manl~r: Hem did you have time to use ·t;b.e tranait?\nDr. La.Po.~:\nThe transit was in the back of ·the car. The mament the car was\nparked a:c the aide of th2 road, we yanked. the transit out and set 1t u,p and"
  },
  {
   "n": 4,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p04.jpg",
   "text": ",\n•\nConference on AEBJ.AL PHENOMENA\nPage 3\nbegan meauurement.s.\nWe were i r. motion at the time but ,re ve1•e able to ge·t; a\nvery good check of 'Uhat w obsc!'Ved at the time on the road near Starvation\nPeak. Ue had a cJ.ea.r view of the sky to the Northwest om the WeBt, and the\nobject wan so low over the horlzon it was possible to compare 1t not o:nly to\nthe ste.:r•a irith which I am f'am1J.iar, but with 1--espect to Il¥)untain peaks -~t\nwere also visible. To continue, that duration vas a.bout two second.Q. 'l'his is\none of tho puzzling ~s to the meteorists. I believe I do not exaggerate\n-.:hen I say tila:'c ':}(:ffa of the d~tion detcrmi:nations that have bclen made 1n the\ncase of the green f'il.\"'eballs have given durations right in that vicinity.\nWhel'ees you -take, sa.y, 100 ord:luarymeteor observations you will :tind the\n·widest diversions in durations.\nYou could take tbe same leason a.a observed\nby 100 people - possibly that 0z a better example .. and there would be wide\nva.rietionn in the estimates of dm-ation.\nDr. MaDl.e~r:\nDid you correlate the ardmu.tha vith ..•.. '?\nDr. LaPe.z:\nNo.\nT'.iJ.ere ie an azimuth factor here which I am goiDg to talk to\nyou about, that relates to the choice of clirection. Both our observations are\nsingle station observations, no that it beeomes impossible ~am the observe.•\ntion mec.aure to deter.nine the x·eal path of the fireball in the atmosphere.\nThere have been only 'three caeea vhere the.t path was determinable. one, as I\nrece.ll it.:- 'W'aS tbat of Dacembez- 12, a.ncrcher December 20, and f'1nally, of course,\nthe very :.nrge fall 0,.1 January 30, 1949. Pll give you some particulars on the\npath3. I do wrm:c to observe, however, that even our station observations\npresent a puzzling eharacteris·,ic to the meteorista. If you plot what are\ncalled, by meteorists, the admiosible protozons for a gi'een fireball tbat has\nbeen obse11Ved, you vill find thut they give, on the average, an approach al:most\nto the North, come dOffll. from the North, they are not restricted to 'l\n•\nBow\nwhe.t about. -I.he real patbo? I e;ave sane indications e.s to the altitude at which\nm.eteoriteo normally disrupt full . . . . . and cme d0m1.\nThat relates to the\nloi-rest . . . . . o~ path. The green fireballs are unusual in this respect:\nprobably that they a.re horizontal or nearly so, or that their horizontal path\nis traverced very lcn1 down in the otmosphere. In the ce.se of the real paths\nf'or wicl'l vre have be - able to make determinations so ~e;r, those are sra,phical\ndeterminations, as ve have not taken the trouble to use Chablis (t) method& or\n. . . . . bec~use the observstions a.re regarded aa necessarily too rough for\n• ema.tical niceties. Those paths are ·traversed at elevations between 8 and\n10 d.lee. I defy you to find anywhere amoDg meteorists, examples of conven­\ntional. meteorites that move over long horizontal. pa.tbs reserving nearly constant\nangular velocities a.nd t.herefo1·e, on the average, con.st.ant linear velocities, at\nelevat iomi of the order o-r 8 to 10 miles. There is a good deal of evidence that\nmay be of value in the complete reports that a.re available hore, but since this\nis sn introduction, I wuld like to summarize at. this stage: the fireball which\nI personoJ.1y vitnesaed on the night of December 12, 1948, ws not, in my\nopinion, e. conventional. meteor :fall. S1!1Ce the majority of the green fireballs\nnave been reported to me, both before and. a:fter this December 12th occurrence.,\npoeeess elnost all the propertielil vbich I persOllally observed on the night of\nDecember 12th, I feel that 1n all probabillty they are not themselves conven­\ntional met,eol~ falls. Now, the easy wy out of this is -to coajure u;p an un•.\nconventional. type of . . . . . metcorite, vhioh comes in practically parallel to the"
  },
  {
   "n": 5,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p05.jpg",
   "text": "•\nConference on AEICAL PHENOMENA\nPage 4\nsurface of the e~~h and is aa.:i.ehol{ eadowcd vith tbe property against the very\ngrea\"i:, atmor.pher1c reointance tlmt is experienced. on a level, it reserves neerly\neons-t-..e.n.t ve1lccity over paths say of th.e order of 25 to over 100 miles, as in\nthe case oi' the greeu fireball en January 30th. It should also bave the\nproperty that it is a very remerkable h·t1e of green, not heretofore observed,\nto my knowledge, in \"i:.ho case of a:ey- conveutional meteor falls. And finally,\nand this pcseibly Ls the moa·I; i.1;1plausible :t\"ea.ture of c.ll, that although 1t\nproduce:, l:i.ght vi:;i\".)lc at distances of the o:rder o-f 1!00 miles, it doeSI1't make\ne.. sound.\nJ.:n the case of che Jru.?.uary 30th fell, due to the fact that there had\nbeen o. lcre;e mmibcr of milltc1-\"7 :persoxmi:?l alerted, ve wre able to obtain\nobeervat:i.ona vith\".n a minute af'\\,je? the fall occurred end pursued the investiga­\ntion over E'. d.i.atsncc of 1,600 miles - in Texas mud. prim2r1ly! - in some ten\ndays• ti!lle inte..'1\"V'ie'lf'lng literaJ.J.y hundreds oz people, ,,e saw not one substan..\ntio.ted accc,unt ot no:l.ee produced by the meteorite fall.\nDr. Teller:· V.ay I a.ok how many people have seen this one big meteorite?\nDr. laPaz:\nT'ABt .:a difficult to say.\n(r~cord blank for abort perl,od) ••••••••\nFinaUy, ir: the illten-ogation of such persons, w invariably interview them ae\nindividuaJ.t1.\nlie •:;rlod a :f'amily o'f 8 the first night, as Majo:z- Godsoe will\nrecall.• :i.n·· erviev-lng ..•.. and :tt became apparent at once that there vas same\ni;ympe:chetiu influence o.nd we broke j_t off after I think the th:trd or fourth\noboervatiOI~ c.:nd thereafter inte:.'.'Vie,red separately. Ii' you were to search,\nhowe\"ter, the inde::9endent observations of those who were v.tdely separated,\n!'.)ossibly stations o! the order of 100, ·there lrere probe.bl.y 100 ditterent\nstaticna Teporting.\nD1·. Teller: What area did that cover?\nDr. taPa8: All o::' New.Mexico, ell the Western half of Texas.\nI have a map\nhere mth ume indic:itions of possibly the extent of that.\nHoyt and B:•adbury:\nWasn°t that Sunday the 2l~th?\nDr. L~az: Ro, 1-t was definitely Sunday tha 30th. The nevspapers have very\nhrlrfull.Y conceelccl mst of the r~levan'G facts relating to tb.is f'ireball. First.,\nthey described it as a firebaJ.l., second, ·they .••• (record blank tor f'ev seconds).\ninteri'eri·ec. m.th OSI and mum~t a.ble to do that this time.\nThie is the f'ield\nmap and ,rll.l give 111 various eolore, dots and pencil <iashs, etc. all of the\nobsei-vationa obta~ned on the T~a.s search.\nDr. Tellel\": All ~:elate to one i'a.1.1?\nDr. 1'..a.Paz:\nYee.\nT'aese lines a.re drat.'D. from points o:f observation.\nThe center,\ncs you see. of i,o:·nts of e.ppearerce is SO\"Jlevhere Southwest of Amarillo or South­\noouthveai of Amarillo. The disappe~.re.nce point is in the vicinity of Lubbock,\nTexas. At the time this Ul18 dr...wn, before I 1-ra.s able to make out t?'aalSit\nmeaoures 111 ·i;b.e v:l.cinity of Alb\\:.querque, this ,re.o the beet apparent path of tho\n?ircioo.llc. These other illk lines are independent, made by other groups ot\nobsej,\"\"Vero i:rorking on the Scmle p:.oble:m.\n(record blenlt again for short time) •\nThi:; transtt, Uilfortunately, had. s. needle with a ben·c p1et-..on and it was Mt"
  },
  {
   "n": 6,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p06.jpg",
   "text": "•\nConference on AERIAL PBEI.JOMEHA\nPage 5\ndiscovered until m,.ch 1e;~er tha-c ve uere getting faulty z-ecords.\nIndependently,\nI b£.ve re~deten:.ined, using the best equip:nent available at tho University, the\nlines of sight a.t all po:~ta where the faulty t.rans1t had been used.\nI have\nplotted on this map only obser.at:l.on.s that I made pG>.-son.9.l.ly or such obuerva­\ntions as I have c-,1cry reason to believe ,,rere Jnade by experienced personnel, for\nexam.ple UAL flyers, who took tll~ trouble to make measures, or possib~ civil\nengj.neel'G.\nDr. Teller: You mean theae people right afterwards or shortly a.f'term,.rds took\nan i11st1'Ull:en:c e.tit. tried ·:;o meavure it?\nDr. u.Pa.z:\n'.!..'hat a right.\nDr. Teller: Thie is the po:Lnt where 1t disappeared?\nDr. LaPa.z:\nAnd r.01-me.J.l..y', all you td.ll get is the point where it disappears,\nbecauae t.te ave1•£1gc man is ali'ar~ ot the fa.ct that when he ii, not w.rned, he\nmak~s e. very im.t:curate observation. Having been uai-ned by- the appearance 0:\nthe fireball, hio attent:J.on is fixed and he wtches where it bursts, where it\nexplodes, where :it disappears. So I say thia is a much better det.o:m:Snaticm..\nThis begirning point, al-though you notice the .•.. of line here, is reasonably\nsa.tisfactcry.\nDr. Te.lle1·:\nAre these points here observers of the teat, locations of those\nobs~rvatic:118? •\nDr. LaPaz:\nUsua.Uy e. dotted c::rcle like tb&t illd1ca.tes a. reported sound obSe't'\"•\nvation. f'e use this symbol: n c11·cle is a report, whether or not the\nobservation includ.es azimuth o:? elevation, light appearances, is indicated ,,....,,.\nthe preser.ce of a. cross.\nU\ni\"G is blacked out, both light and aound vere\nheard. nu, ever;/ one o~ those thiI!go baa been disproved. In the area vb.ere\nthe end poin.t w.u located, oil well drilling was underuay, dynamite blasting\nin connection 'f7ith ae'c·ting up of i-igs, same nitro beill,g used apparently to\nehe:tter . . . . .\nIn ave17 case ,re .rere able to e%Cl.ude the posaibil.1ty that the\nnoioea :reported 00-tu.s..Uy 't1ere ·ded 1n vith the meteorite fal1. At least let\nme say, 1It my op:;.n:Lon, those noisee vere excluded. In certain cases,\n1nde:pe.ndet:.tly, ths.:~ ws conf'ir~ed by a visit of Lt. Rym:l. of the Roswell group\nof -the om:. For instance, the best case of all, near Amherst ? , or noise ­\nthe obeer\\-er, itea true, was only a ten-year old boy, but be wrote a very\nintelligent letwr, and 1t is 1:-ell lmO\"W tbat children, like en1maJ e, are more\nseru:;itive to sound than people v.bo have listened for too many years, say, to\nthe xa.dio. It appeared eonceiva.blo that he had actually made a soUDd observa­\ntion, but Lt. Ryan uent to Amhent ?, found that even three members of the\nfamily \"i!ere not able to confirm his observation of noise cmd. no oue 1n the\ntown, aome 300 o:r 4oo persons I think in all vere eetimated to have been\nvisited, l'.O one o.t all had hem,! a sound, so I think that Mike probably hen.rd\nthe samll! c~tc blaat as had been reported by Miss Winoon Didpasture .. I\ndiful't tal.e that name out of the tunny papers, it actually exists.\n(continual e~nation of the maps mth minor interrogations concern1.Dg\nmarkings.)"
  },
  {
   "n": 7,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p07.jpg",
   "text": "•\nCon:rerence on AERIAL PIDmO:mNA.\nPage 6\nDr. Le.Paz: W!th 0&\"1e exception, in the ca.a,.., of' Roswell, there e.re two types\nof cound aasoci&ted 11ith meteorite fu.lls end, I acsume, associated vi.th the\nmotion of any very high velocity projectile or missile through tbe air.\nT°J'.lere sre vb.at ~rc1c1ats wuld cul reczoneble oounda, end while he would\nnot acknm,lede;e i J.;, s1multaneouoly with ~.;he c.ppaarcnce or a meteor1te, you\nhear c. meteorite, yhc physicist ,;rill refuse to believe the observation.\nrevert.Jwleas, there i.a a tremendous volume of evidenc indicating that these\nm~maloU3 sc'\\lllds oc:cu:..-red.\nAnyone who cioes field work 1n the search for\nzaeteo:rites 'tr.Lil c0:.1e acroso possibly 'JUI, oi' the observers who say that,\nalthough my a\"i.tention ~\nattracted by hn-..ari.Il8, a miining noise, e vhistling\nnoioc: I looked up and ·Ghere ,mo the fir~bal.l. In o:ther words, this ana:nalnus\n1?:ound a.ppe.rently attracts attention to the occurrence.\nI bnve an article by\nBrandon . . • . . one of ·Ghe flO!I.S of the man w~ first investigated the great\ncreter out :,.n Ar1Zon3, and. s chap by the name or Bart ? vith 1r\"ho:n I am not\nperao:aally ccgy.z.dnted but a :p~~icist ap_parontly at Princeton, 1n which they\netteJeyt ·w ~ uotify t.b.e occurrence of ano:m.1.ous sound.\nThey express 1 t roughly\nin th:f.a fe:aion.\nElcctro.I!t3gnctic radiation is net up by\n(Dr. Teller excused. to anawer the phone.)\nDr. L3.Pllz:\nYou wouldn't believe it anylray! Ho~r, •.••• electromagii.etic\nra.d.iction iu rectified somehow by the . • . • . changed into sound tbat can be\nheard and, •aieref'ore, you cu. he:u- the reetcorite at the seme time you ece it\nfell. In the case of the Roswell observation apparently that occurred.\nt::e\nhave\ne;ro,.ql of five men • there uerc nea.r a. stee1 '1!ll0kestack • ond tSVfi1rY\nle.ct one of them m;e1.\"\"'0 that they heard at the same time they were va.tchillS\nthe green f:.reball eo by, c. noise like, se.y., o eaeoline blOV\"torch.\n'lb:lt ie\nccrtoinly not an ordinary explosives cound.\nOne :core thing in connection\nm:'Gb the noirnea.\nIn every other :meteorite f'all, any one meteorite :tall that\nI ho.vc inventigated, - that cove1·0 ms.ey yea.rs .. I have\nver yet found sn\noccasion of n detonating fireball., vithout meteorites caning dovn at all,\n:!.:!'l '!rh.ich ·chore vao not sam.e evidence of ala..\"\"l!l of an1rnals. Chickmls will fly\ne:-oun.il to tcy to uet under cover. DogG vill howl o.nd try to get into the\nhouGe. liorsea vill run o.vay. In the ca6~ of the TCJm.s fall., in epite or the\ntranend.oun a.reg:. in llbich the llght 1,-as obcerved., we found not a a1ngl.e caoe\nin which ·c.ho w1rool6 vere disturbed. We lm2w;,t the cdtie of a farmer who hwl,\nin mmny Te.me, a pond vi.the f'ive-inch layer of ice, tmo reported that e.\n~~teorite had foll.en through the ice on tbat pond, had broken a hole. Captain\nNeef here pu-'c on o. pair of rubber booto l.1lld very thoroushly searched the pom\nwi-'Gho it finding n meteorite. Even 1u that oaoo there vae no evidence of\nalarm by ~h~ e.n1nm,Jo.\nI bel.ievc vith tlmt aummary, I'd better cease operations\nand have yo1 o.sk quetrl;icma.\nQ-u.estion: llou ?mny obnerved fall.6?\nDr. L9.Paz: I'd like to clasaify thooo into three groups.\nI ·would 88-,Y that\nthere ere ten instances that definitely merit the moat eerioue conaidere.tion.\nThey are strictly e.mlogous to the green fireballs of the night of December 12.\nOn top of that, there muat be sauething of the order of tmmtymore which ere"
  },
  {
   "n": 8,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p08.jpg",
   "text": "•\nConference on AERIAL PHENOMENA\nPage 7\nso ·irell rapo:..'ted, from Los Alaoos for example, tha.t although the green fire­\nbsllu observed ohoved small . • . • the na.ture of the fireball • • • •\nmany\nobs~rva\"iiions ot ob3ervers· lrho paid prectically no attention to the sky at\nP.ny other time in their lives and now vhen they see a really bright light,\nthey report it. You will find a great; na.ny instances of bluish-white tire•\nballs. In my op:!.nion, thoi.;e fa.lJ.iug vertical.ly and leaving trails, are\nc:iro:ply ordinary shooting stars. Of high intensity, that is, what we call\nfircbal.l.s, a blue light, 8.1.'e not in ezr:, sense to be associated with the green\nlights. Those th...-ee categories ·chen.\nDr. Mmley:\n?\nDr. La.Paz: In the ce,se of the tuo green fireball paths, determined from Los\nAla::no:s obse:r-·tations, in one caae the Ste.rvation Peak incident, we have an\nEa.st-Wet3t :modon, and then also a motion exactly parallel to ••••• In other\n'lfOI\"d.B, ·these two real pe.tho Bho-vr, I think they are the only two ·or the first\ncategory that show any real dei.>artui e tram the • • • • • It is possible to\nexplain t!l.S.t. It is qui.te evident that ue have no case ot assurance tb.s.t\nbot!.l gt-o~is of ob£ervcrs, the observe1·s at.Starvation Peak and the observers\nat Los Alamos, s11\"t-·· the oame point of ..... so that if' we were to merely ask\n·lfba.t are the linite Within which ouch real paths might fall., it t'l.1l'lU3 out\ntha:t it migb.i; be eo short ae 12 miles instead of bei:ng 25 miles long, and in\nths.t case i .,.; woulo. be directed almost directly to the North; it vould come\ndoun veey ncs.rly .,\"i·thin 2 degrees, 5 ~et;rees say, of the North,. In the case\nof the 'l'exao obE:Cl'\\ratioI\\.8, whe:::-eao I hav-e ind.icated and the maps show, we\nha;rn Jl'.I.BJ.lY obaervut.tons by tra:1.ned observers, motion :J.o clearly almost directly\nNorth -to South.\nI have been informed that tllan are reasons for regarding the\n. . . . . oat here (ditch digger) . . . and you no·cice that this passeo reasonably\nclose to Lubbock.\nThe seme is true of the two earlier fireballs, those of\nDecembe~ 12 and Decembe1· 20. They both ps.saed • one passed centrally over\nLoo Al.a.mos and the other about six mil.eo North o-r the center, but this would\nnot be trae . • • . . (ditch digge::) .\nOno point that poasibly should have been\nme -i;ioned ea.'1'.'ller is this: I 1mo the more interested vhen Captain Neef came\nto my ottice and brought the December 5th incident to my mind because very\nnuch earlier I bad been conto.c·.:;ed firet by • • • White, Director of Texas\nObs~rve!\"s, in regard. to ·their remarkable green :na..-re aecn on January 1, 1948.\nSecond, f'rom a tr. Pru1tt, Director lforthweGtcrn Section, City &..~tion, o~\nthe Meteor Socie·Gy, I had been informed that earlier occurrences of bright\ngreen t'ireba.llo, r.ot too far f::.•om the Hanford area. When Captain Neef' came\nin ,;..r:i.th r(!l)orte of green fireballs ne~.r Lo.a Vegas and particularly when ho\ndisclosed that the1-e l.'aG a Los Ala.mos near !Bs Vegas - the real !Qa Alamos ­\nit 1.1ad much interest.\nDr. 'BolJ.mray: Are there aey reports of theac from otlwr install&tions, such\naa Troy, New York, or places like that?\nDr. Le.Paz:.\nI xaised that ques..;ion end ! lmorr or no other cases. I mean to\naay the a:~eaa from which these reports came, as in one, t'or such evidence as\n..... , they do not relate to the green f'ireballs; they relate to the daylight\noccurrence of hcrlzo.ntaJ. moving, bright wbite obJecte - same in Memphis,\nTem1essee iziMay, 1948 - tbat :..a not too far from Oak Ridge.\nThey relate to"
  },
  {
   "n": 9,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p09.jpg",
   "text": "•\nCon.fer~nco on AERIAL PHEUO.MlfflA\nPage 8\nthe Ranfo1:d area as far as the Pru1tt observations go, a?Jd to the observations\nthat I 81re mentio1ed. here in the I.!ts Vege.s-Los Alamos e.rea •\nA very\no. • • • •\ncurious thing has came to light during these investigations. I published not\nlong ago n.n artiole in Science mustrated on the recovery of the • o • • • T~m\nmeteorite. The -'Yi.me that fell: Februnry 18, 1948, the rumor got around\nsameholf' in l,orthern Kensas and Southern Kansas that it was a Russian bomb,\nand 1t ,mu e.imed at the geogra1>hical center of the Unived States which is not\n-very far :.\"rem ••\nApparently, a great many p~le gave credence to that\no • •\nrumor and vere d~llghted mi.en 'tre i'inall.y recovered meteoritee up there and\npro·red :l.t waan 8·, eeything but e-.n ol:dinary mcteor1te :fall. Incidentally, 1t\ndid not have the cha:racteristics of tb.e ~\nfireba:l.l we're t-Olk1ng about here.\nThere mis a.n air transpor·i; pilot wo made a moet curious observation while\nfly-.lng near Cher-oourg on January 16, 1946. His observation was tbe observation\nof a bounning meteor. After 'tfliat I •ve been telling you about the green 1'1::e­\nballs, you. probably think it not unreasonable that a meteorite should bounce\nbut to thr~ meteorlytical mind J..;hat seems very hard to swallow.\nThe interest\nis ·that oae or your ovn persons here at Los Alamos, one aDd confirmed at least\nin ~\nb;r four othe!' persona, SE',v one of the green f\"in:bal.le come down e:od\n1\nthen glido of'f horizontally. lhe bouncing rueteor1te 1a, manually ezplained by\nhaving it fom, say sinusoidal motion lying in about the plane at wich the\nobserver ·ma loo't:1.ng so that he first eav the high point of the curve or the\npeak.\nTh<! next time it vaa at the peok, it w.e so -r.s:r away that the altitude\n,ro.s very :i.cn,, \";fhich will give yo1.1. the 8:l?Pearance of a bouncing meteorite.\nI\notter-~·-; as a :possible explanation. ot course, he may have landed in Paris\nbefcre he J!l£.de t::le Cher'bourg flight 8.Jld then we should disregard the testimoey\nent:t1--ely!\nMr. Iiewbu::-ger:. Dr. La.Paz, you men..i;ioned, I beli,ve, at one of our other\nmeetingo ·.;hat they had compared the color of this with certain metals?\nDr. LaPo.z:\nTbatas r-lght. Initially ve coul.a. onl.y ask them what 'they thougb't\nit looked like. .And we got such interesting responses that ve eventually\ncarried a:.~und a spectrum chart and al.loved. everybody to make hie own choice.\nOf' course, the use of the apectni:m clwrt lra.S UDI1ecessary il they have a color\nlike one :Lady vho had aroUlld he:r neck a green scarf' vhich she assured. me had\ner..actly the ceme hue, but norma1ly not having euch tbb1gs to look at, they\nwere plealed to have the chart to loolt at. They will choose, in~ of the\ncases, ca·cegory 1 o.nd. category 2 a uave length Wieh corresponds to something\nbetween 4900 and possibly 5300. Most o:r them Yill tall vuy close to 5218\n1,.hich is .1bout the color you get whim you have copper saltcs in the Bunsen\nbuner. I cheeked With Dr. Regener on that and asked him if an alloy had\nbeen. used, like, eo.y, copper beryllium, U there wollld be any change in th.st\nhue, and :ie has ~ssured me thei-e would not. He se.id 1t ,fOUld still g1ve\ns.wronr.1a·~ e.ppearonce ot bery1.lilllil copper . . . • • You 'trill find 1n probably\n1350 of t:..ie 1500 only the mereat trace of copper occurrence. There are e.\nfew z4eteo:l!\"ites like . . . . . in South Dakota, mi.ere 11ttle veins of copper have\nbeen toUDil, making up possibly .l~ of 1i.\nDr. Bradb.iry: Is this true or all meteorites?"
  },
  {
   "n": 10,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p10.jpg",
   "text": "•\nConference on AERIAL PHENOMENA\nPage 9\nDr. LaPaz: It Os true in 8JlY' ce.tegory. Even ill the irons, the presence ot\ncopper is very hard to detect, ,re::ey little...... (ditch digger). I don't\nkn.01, whether you gentlemen could auggest an easy way to obtain green firebull.\nspect!'a 01\" not.\nDr. Teller: Wha.t is the geogI'G'.!)hieal solution ot this?\nDr. La.Paz~\nAno·t.~.er map trould probably answer that best of a.11.\n{Lool:ed at more mapa m.th GOl!!e talk that vaa not audible.)\nMr. Hoyi coni\"ir.ned the green hu.e of the gre\nfireball he had seen on the\nnight of December 30., 1948.\n(Reco1·d dead dor minute or tvo.)\nMr. lioyt: I would have said approximately as tar above the mountain as tho\nfloor 0£ the val.ley -.ra.a below the top of the mountain.\nI felt that wuld\ngive me somewhere in the neigblorhood of 20,000 feet or thereabouts. It we.s\nabout 5 minutes to 6, on my '!ray up here.\nI have a reeling that it had a\ndmm~d path.\n! mean it 'Ira.a going South.\nDr. La.Paz: But :~t was not 1Strietly horizontal?\nMr. Hoyt: Ro.\nDr. LaPaz:\nWe have some discrcpanciea in tbnt regard.\n9':/1, or the observa•\nt1011s indicate a vary nearly horizontal path. One fram Fort Worth, Texas,\nwhich im.s not made by ••.•• but meas~d by them, indicateo an elevation o:f\n6 degrees st the beginning and 2½ to 3 degrees at the end.\nMr. Boyt: That'n what I would have said, but remember that the ridge wuld\ngive you the senBa-c;ion ·i;hat it was taking a d011Jlll'lU'd path. Duration • e.t\nthe tim~ I wou.ld say it wao approx.ima.tc:ly 3 seconds.\nCre:td.'t\". Mandelkorn:\nHow does the calculated velocity ot thsse objects compare\nvith the known velocity o~mcte~rites?\nDr. J'..a.Pa~: Appal'ently ver-y much lower; that 1s,· more tban the ordina.r1ly\nobserved r.ceteorit;e falls. Fin.it., to observe in the cast of an actual\nmeteor!te :tall you have a relatio-A o~ ·~e velocity from the auricle ot .....\natmoaphere down to the 1mpaet velocity which may be very ..... but it isn't\nfair to compare the velocity of the green fireballs to the impact velocity\nof •••••• (ditch digger and. everyone t.al1ting at once) ....... Bot v1th the\ntrajectory veloci'!;~r of the meteor!te wW.ch is the same as the velocity of\nthe f~nts thc.t fel.l i\"ram th-? meteorite. After a meteor!te . . . . . the\n:f'rag!'llent fall about like a bam'b.\nThe1.r resiste.n.ce just about balances out\nthe . • • . • and as e. result, they come dovn vt·Gh about the velocity ot a\nfelling bmib, e. 11t·~le less beea.uae thoy do not have the 8&me ballistic\ncoefficient.\nDr. Bradbury: This 1e not e.n e;£cludecJ. ? direction like the ..... ?"
  },
  {
   "n": 11,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p11.jpg",
   "text": "•\nConfcrcn~e on AERIAL PHENOMENA\nPage 10\nDr. LePaz: Due to the foct th:lt they have\ncurve, and p:roctically all. ti!tes\nduring vhich de.rlmeos is with us, why they tend to come in f'ram that direc­\ntion....\nDr. Br~~hury: Uould it be a t'houer?\nDr. IsPo.t.: That wao my tirat el:!)lanat1on, as a Jlltltter of fact. Geminate\nsh0r.-ers 111th o rnax:trme of Deceober 10 to December 12. The i\"ir ~ evidence that\nI had 1.~r Sgt. Kinaley'o report on De~ember 2 and oinco often the torenumers\nor the ol~-era will • • • • • I thought ve were t6lking about Geminate ehoirero\nexcept ttat I never obacrvcd a green Ge::nina.te. Mttcr of fnct, e. check of\nobr,c1'Vationo made at tha.t t\ne found that there uere 414. observations eince\n19-5 and tb.ero wmi0t a single one, Geminate or non-Gcninate, for Which any\nhue of f3Ieen was ucmtio.ned.\nL!lter, for instance on ~\nnight of December 12,\nyou coul<i ,m.tch the Gem1na.te c~3 dow.. . . . and notice the.t they Cflma 1n at\nhigh angles to the horizontal, whereao the green fireballo . . . . . Incidentally,\nve hnve onother interesting piece of eVidence thero - Dr. Shel\"!D.lll Smith :t'ram\ntho Utdversity - I mention en .baervation that h made on the came night. ihe\ntim- of the oboervation is 1n d1 putc. According to Dr. S?Dith it we probCLbly\nao late s 10:50. He bad to wait for a 10118 till:.e, he so.la., for hie vife to\npick him up after the concert -ma over. Mrs. Sm!t.h., ho-vever, times it aroUJJd\n10:10. Ubntever the time., witllin cm hour or say an hour and n halt after the\ngreen fireball e.nd the horizontal path verc ob5ervcd, 11e have another enreme~\nbright bla.e f'ireboll CCC!!e out of' the Gcmin:1te re.yo.\nI mention this beeauoo\nsome of' the f'irnt persons to concern themselves v.Lth this problem suggeut that\nthe green fireballo 1:rere si:m;ply nbnomally bright Oeni.nntee. Apporently you\nce.n have \"l'ery l.e.rge Gcminate till.ls of the color eotillla.tcd by a trained ..•...\nchecked wtth the opec~ cbar-'.;s •••.. 1c quite diot!mt, I assure you, f'r<Xll\nthe green f'ireball.o.\nC<Edr. l\" ldelkorn: nov good 1a the covera.ge of the oboervers ~ the Americmi\nMeteor Society cs far o.o the to:p-lw.11\" of the, United Sta.tea is concernedf\nDr. LllPaz. It depends a good deal upon overcast conditions.\nI vould o~,\nhowever, that thio year the .t:aetern half ot the country has otter\"4 pbenomeml\nobserving conditiono.\nOzie of' rr,y reaooru; for vithdraving from Ohio Sto.tc vns\nthat a:fte1· 13 ~o there I had g1ven u_p hope of ever cee:tne a meteorite chower\nbee uoe during the oeaoon ~ n:sx1mu:m intencity of' the fa.Us w had he:lvy over­\ncact, sr.,0, end oo torth.\nOn the other land, this year they're had rcna011abl.y\nopen ckieE •\nI have obtained no reports from people 1n the.t part ot the\ncountry.\n'Pe thought ve had a definitive check bccauae Harvord College has nov\ninstalled c. pho'togra!)hic me\"b:!or station near or pos ibly inside the Vhite\nSanda Pro~\"ing Ground. Since the 12th of December, you correct me if I\nexaggeratf here, uc have been trying to d tel'Ll1ne the color and other cmx-c.cter­\niGtics of the ten or 12 brighteot meteors ob:..orved at thnt tation. We otill\ndon't knov vhnt they sav. l'1e knov th y were operating and they made ane\nphotogroph.a, but Captain Neef c:m probably tell you the red•t4p0 cbarmellzatiou\nimpediments that hao dropped out any- determina+iozw better then I can."
  },
  {
   "n": 12,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p12.jpg",
   "text": "I\nConfere:o.ce on AERIAL PBEn'O?SllA\nPago 11\nCc.ptc.l.n Neef: i'ell, 1t'o one of those tbinga; it's a llnvy contract and they\narc D0t at liberty to divulge tlhat they f'ind, ■o ve hc.ve to go tbrough\nWaohington, the BureD.u of Ordnmlce., to get the informat ion.\nComdr. lbndclkorn: I believe I can get thnt iuf'omation; as a matter of f'e.ct,\nI feel very certe.in tbat I con. Just a matter ot ~h.\nDr. La.Paz: I feel certain if I had contacted Dr. Fred l-1hipple., tor ~le,\nI could have obtained it, but hin other occ\\\\!)D,tions keep him away tran that\ninst.allation. Am. actually I felt as a me\niot., it 'Cigb.t\nvise to have\nOSI appeal for information re.th.er than to ask tor it directly.\nC ptain Reef:\nThey did tell uo they weren't using filmu vhich were go1ng to\nbe ausccptible to thooe eoloro.\nD;;•. Lo.PE.z: But, of course, they o.re mald.na; constant viGUD.l. obcervat1cms and\nif' you ,1'0%'e able to deter.rd.110 visual. observations 100 mU:ea fran Los Al.tmlos\ndon't reveal the occurrence of bright grean fireballs, I tb1nk it vould be\no1snif1cent.\nI don4t lmw vlly they ahould avoid the 60utb.ern-bal:f ot the\nBta.te.\nComdr. l 3lldelltorn: Let us say if tlwae had been at ~ h1sa cltituaeo,\nthey vou1d hsv~ been v1o1ble fra!!l ffl11te &mds v1thout mq question.\nCo.pta.in ee:t: This one or the 30th detin1tely' ve.a Visible tram \\-nrlte Sands\nbecauoe CO!i'!tondP.r Holloman 7 and hie v1fe and one ot his\nictanto mid his\nvife 00.V it frooi there.\nDr. Le.Po.z:\nOn the otlwr hand., you hc.ve evidence like that ot Prot\"eua:,r Talbot ?\nn.w in chnrge of tho optical trajectory section. daen +.l'l!M'\"ft7 an ~rienced\nnatroDam~r, c. meDber of the Aner1can lleteor Society.\nI talked u1th him &'bout\ntbio, o.nrl ho ms observed nothing out ot the ordinary.\nI don't think o.nybody,\nI menn in the line of green fir ballo, in this o.rca\nhas been ob erv1Dg •\nmuch cs he doee.\nI don't see ho\\!' he could mies 1glrt1.na eo:ne ot theDe.\nQueotion: 'Wl:lat cx,plt.UlG.tion do )IOU have for thia?\nDr. ~: ~c only explanation is the one I save 1n the beglnn!ng smd. had my\nea.re pronptly boxed tor. I think these fll'e def'enai v~ man.oei.-veru ot a\nhigher U s. Comm:i\\Dd and th\nere practising in the nei~ the regians\nth,_....,- o.re going to defend, so naturally your localization~ Ugbt neo.r tb.o\ne.tamc bceb inBtnlle.tions, but boy, cm I scolded tor tllat! ET1lll Dr. Ka.plan of\nthe FAD? teUo t!; no, no, the FAD vould knov all o.bout it, an4 they don't\nhave any facta.\nDr. Bradbury: Is this the pb.ys1c1ot Kaplan?\nDi-. Ls.Pe.z:\nYeo.\nKeplan is my old boss. Be ,ma ch1et ot the operat10Dal.\nsualyeis oect1on vhtm I vas ••••. director there...... During ltaplan's visit"
  },
  {
   "n": 13,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p13.jpg",
   "text": "•\nConference on AERIAL PRENOMENA\nPage 12\nto t:1.e univers1ty of Neu Mexico, whert? h\\9 was lecturiDS, we call.ed a confer­\nence Yith Major Godsoe and oth<?r interested. parties. Re ~ve a brief resume\nof t.~ observations that ha.d b:,en mado to date. Now, Kaplan is one or the\ncharter members of the Americn:n. Iirtteor Sooiety, and he said certainly theee\ncould not be conventional meteorite fe.11s.\nRe, of course, mentioned as other\np<\"' :,,h. do ub,o have not gone into it more thoroughly, the poeeibility of\nabnormal types o:f meteorite falls, tb.Bt misht come in trom a peculiar direc•\ntiOil or m1.ght droop at very l01r1 level, but I don't think he was able to\nex:i>lain the absence ot sound.\nDr. Teller: Did I und rstand you cor,:ectly that the velocity ot the object\nappears to be some 50 kilometers per second?\nDr. Lo.Paz: No. In the case of the green i>ireballe sanething between 3 miles\nper second ond 12 miles per eecond.\nl)epeM.ing, you see, it you choose one\nruled map or another. For exnnrple, let me illustrate how that aff\"ects the\nvelocity cleterm:l.nat1on. This is the one I th1nk poesibl7 best repre11ents the\nobservations of the case ot the fireball of December 12. That is the pat~ I\nassu:ne the Los Alamos observers sav the same point of the curves that the\nStarvation Peak observers d1d, likevioe to the point ot disappearance. It we\ndeny that possibility, the pathmipt shorten to this dotted Une.\n(Dr. LaPaz\nworked on maps ...ri~i.h Dr. Teller, explaining paths.) Drappillg from 25 to eome•\nthing betveen ll and 12 miles. The January . 30 observation gave us our first\nlong path.\nDr. Teller: J!ow long was it?\nDr. La.Paz: The firet observatio~ we bad here indicated . . . . •\nThat vss\n'because of errors in the deter.llina.t1on ot the azimuth at t.b.e point of begin•\nning, made due to the faulty transit they used. But that's correct that the\npath runs aver 100 miles.\nDr. Teller: And how long does it take?\nDr. La.Paz: Duration estimatec range t'rom 5 to around 14 secon.do.\nI think that\na 10 second av-era&re is about the beat, that vould give about 10 miles per\nsecond.\nDr. Bradbury: Green ie not an unknOffl'l. color in meteors!\nDr. LaPa.z: If I were to rewrite the report that I first presented on that 8\\lb­\nject, instead of oa.ying \"re.rely observed\n0 tbis color green, I think I woul4 DOY\nea.y \"never observed\".\nYou sometimes see green, Dr. ·Bradbury, but it 1a a blue­\ngreen. The blue♦-g?\"een color. ie rare., but it ie observed. Por instance,\nDr. Shem.an Smith9s observation wae essentially a blue-green, but on the bluo\nside.\nDr. Bradbury: What other colon do you see 1n meteors?"
  },
  {
   "n": 14,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p14.jpg",
   "text": "•\nConfe1·ence on AERIJ\\.L PBENOMENA\nPage 13\nDr. :ta.Paz: mutee chiefly. If' you look closely snd Yithout interference 'from\noutside liglrts, yellmrs, oranges and reds.\nDr. :era.clbury: But it's apparently a yellowish-green we 9re t.a.1k1ng G.bout here.\nIf you can eee a bluish-green, you can aleo a,ee yellows and whites.\nDr. laPaz: '!here is some defect, possibly in the vision, that %'8qu1ree a\npretty high intensity in that yellow-green before it9s uoUd 1n a meteor fall.\nDr. Bradbury: Looks like greenCZ\nDr. LaI'az:\nYes it does, that0s perfectly true. Now here's a peculiar property\nof thoae yellov.-gr\"en fireballs - same people vill ref'er to them as red. The\nonly exple..ne.tion that I can tbillk of is they report afterwards that they m:e\nwhat ~a@ exposure to a very green-blUioh light i\"ather thnn -the Ugb.t itself•\nI donit lm.ov if that 1s correct. And, incidentally, due to your observation,\nI donqt kno\\-r how to explain the ina.bility of meteor 9baervers to report this\n:;.-enega.d color, but, I eim;ply know it doesn't occur.\nYou So through long lists,\nlike those of the American Meteor Society, you will tilld, I i.JDaSi.ne, not l 1n\n100 where a geen is mentioned. Even in the case of the\n? ehowere, were you\nhave largo nUinbera of very brigt.t colors• let me recall eooiething that allot\nyou must have seen.\nThe • • • • • shower of Oetober 9, 1946 - ~\nhere who so.v\nthat? '!'here veN large numbers ot e:.ctremelJ bright fireball.a at that ti?r.e.\n0\nKaplan himaelf' recalled that they were blue, maybe blus•sreen, but never yellow\ngreen.\nAnd I observ~d those und.er very to.vorable circumstances - ve were\nny1ns a.t about 20.,000 f et in e. B-29.\nWe had no absorption ettecta at ell.\nThey def'ir:ite1Y' did not shov hues or green.\nDr. Bradbury: You mentioned the noiae problem also. The noise occurs only\nwhen ·the meteot' i tselt blows up, breaks up?\nD:t•. La.Paz: No, tb&t isn't strictly ·i;rue.\nYou have, in addition to the hollow\nsound, the normal sound of ~\nbreaku!) of the • • • • •\nYou have headwind; you're\nnear the path. You get a real ahock; 'to-r 1J1Stance, we have ••••• apparently­\nbroken up by that hea.dwave, shock wave, _in the caee ot the !ford.en County-P'alla.\nAnd then from the turbulence and retlections eJ.l the way along the path,~\nliill have a. rumbling 'Qbich nyxy endure oot for the matter~ a tenth of a\nsecond, bQt for m1nutee, and they~re rw rough.\nDr. Bradb\"UrY: But these occur fairly close to the tra,Jeetory?\nDr. Le.Paz:\nRo. In the case ot ~\nNorden County Fells aaa,n, they were heard\nclear doim to . . . . . City. •Shakes buildings that rar away.\nThe •••• o Pe.Us\nwere> heard up to 300 miles from the point ot 1-()act.\nDr. ~48.dbury: Large number of observations ••.••..\nDr. LaPa.z: Bo, the.re again I checked very care:tw.ly because I we concerned.\nI am trying desp<erately to give e. logical explanation to the abaence ot 8011Dd."
  },
  {
   "n": 15,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p15.jpg",
   "text": "•\nConference on AERIAL PHENOMENA\nPage 14\nI have found in J~e literature only three cases where no detonations, no\nrumbl:i.n.gs were i--eported.\nOne of those ic ·i;b.e Belgium. observation in 1855,\nand I thiuk should be diacoun'tt!d. ~ca:1::se meteorists hardly exieted at that\ntmo.\nSome :falls occurred end wre not reported at all. The other two are\nreasonably receut observations~ one in 1921 end one in 1922. They occurred,\nhcme•,er, :tn the deep South wheJ•e negroes, I think, were the only observers.\nEven thcr.?, the 1-1hizzing of the :meteorites as tbey t'ell through the air, waa\nreyol:-ted.\nI knm, of no case of an actual meteori~.;e where at least the\nwh.i.zzill8 of the falling body coming down -th..-rough the air has not been\nrepo~ted.\nDr. Braub1..try:\n•• • •••• ?\nDr. LaPnz: t-1eteol•ite i'e.lls, I believe that \\faS ·the way you phrased it? In\nthe case or a shooting star, of course, you never bear a thine; because the\nentire mass is, v~ry kindly, vaporizeci. befoz-c it gets, say, within 50 miles\nof the earth....... Not only noises, but s.ccompanied by sucb Zl.Oises that\npersons o:r animnla are really frightened out of' their Wite. For example,\n·m~ h.o.ve a. beau-ti:rul case where 2 horses killed themselves - in the Norden\nCO\\m~y 1''alls ... they rr.ay have been felled by meteoriteaI but I cm inclined to\nthink the.G the noi:cle frightened the'Jll until they dashed into a ditch •• . •••\nAnim·lls go crazy.\nCot1d:,..•. Yiandelkoi..-n:\nDo you think 1'1~ u:r:.ueual. no fragments are fOUI!d?\nDr. La.Paz:\nI certo.inly do.\nAnd I ·think it unusual, not only 1n the caee of\nthe sreen fireballs, but in view or the fac·t tha·i: a greo.t fall, like the\n. . . . . fall of October 30, 1947., 'llhire:ror the first time we detected a bit of\nthe •1.uter~st on the ps.rtr. ot the military, '~ere too ve recovered nothing.\nOc·oober 30, 19!!-7, about ~:48 in the afternoon there was, what appeared to\nbe, a tr~nendous ~eteorite ~all. over the reaervetion area - the Four Corners\nAref1..\nWe got thel-e m'Ghin a ver-y i'ew hours, had excellent observations, wnt\nback time 8lld age.in, cxhauated groUild search, CAP people in airplanes, we .bs.d\ne radio centered, we h.ad radio controlled jeeps and a lot of people out wal,k..\ning around\nnot s. trace.\nI can't give you a color on that becauoe •••.•\nO\nComdr. Mandelkorn: Ordinarily, when phenomena. of' that nature occur, you are\nable to recover aome material?\nDr. La~.z: Yes, some meterial is recovered almost always.\nIf' proper search\nis conducted.\nUe hav , by the t,ra.y, very ·Gb.orough air search conducted by\nGill Field Corps of' Intelligence Unit; Dr. Lansberg ot the Research a:od\nDevelopiilent Board, very kindly interested himDelt in the problem and the air\nseo.rchcra resultea. not even in the discovery of a broken branch.\nThe region\nls heavlly forreated. If' branches baO: been broken, I th1nlt tbey would have\nbeen det,e:ted.. I baren 1t claaaified ·i:;hs.t particular fall, however, with the\ngreen fireba1le and tor this reason: tbat left a train. Another thing vbich\nI n.tlsht have mentioned - a non:ial meteorite fall . . . . . ·t-rill produce a lOIIS\n(:Dtb.zrillg i;rain visible by- ds.y and night. Luminous by night and b;y d&y,"
  },
  {
   "n": 16,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p16.jpg",
   "text": "•\n•\nConference on AERIAL PREROMENA\nPage 15\nilluminated by the sun. In tl.\\e caee of the irona, it v.lll be very ta.int,\nbt1t it Oll be there it you lool; for 1t. In the ease of the Four Corners Fail,\ntlw.t train ,ras obeerved. and I m inclined to believe that it might have been\na conventiona.l meteorite fll.ll. In the ca.Be of the green fireballs, to my\nknouledge, no such train haa been observed..\nTha:;:; question is always asked\nof people - did you observe a lo:ng enduring train; their replies were al,mys\nnecative.\nComdr. Manclelkorn:\nThen you ,rould say there vere 10 incidents which are\na.nalogoua to the green. fireballs, with reports checked by a. sufficient number\nof in epcnden-t observers, that thdre io no doubt whatsoever of their occurrence?\nDi-. La.Paz:\nTha.t 1 s right.\nCc,n:.dr. Mu.nd.elkorn:\nThen there are ~O with some cleviationa, two of these\n, prcbably are r~leted to the green fireba.Ue ... . .\nDr. Lal'ez: I believe two of those 1J:.c1dents I mentioned occurred before the\n5th of December. A very remarkable one of the 4th of August .. note that that\nagain 1s vory close to the titte of . . • . . meteor ohower . . . . . . Fram le.te in\nJuly on and my report will be producing qu1te a number of thel!le ........ , but\nit is p~ically imposeible vith this particul.Ar obaerva.tion tram near .•....\nOregon.•...\nDr. Bradbury: Th~n their directions ,rere wrons?\nDr. La.Paz:\nAo a n-.atter or fact, ve can1t tell because they were single\noboervatione. Maybe I ehould :pasc th,_t letter around, but it is, I believe,\nthe i\"iret detailed report on vhat might be chsracterized as a typical green\nfireball.. After the Oscar ..... incident of January l, 1948, was merely a\nremarkable green flo.Gh, ~'hich might have had some other interpretation.\n(Dr. LaPnz ebowed some letters around the tc.ble., and ~re ,ro.s\ngeneral talk not able to be picked up ind.1vidually. )\nMajor Godsoe:\nThe baaic purpose of t.n:1.a meeting is: ve want you to find a\nmeteor!\nMr. Hewburger:\nHave the mili\"c.ary - e.ey-one from the National Defense estab­\nliohment - given us ODything? Sent out any coDJectures about this tl:fog?\nMajor God.soe: :No, most o~ the mil1tary a.uthorities think ve are crackpots;\nthat is, except for the Army Air Force, -which is taking an active interest in\ndetails.\n•\nMr. Nevburger:\nThe Air Poree does -have the primary interest in this gadget?\nMajor Godsoe:\nYes, the Air Force is -~e gathering, reporting agency tor this\nphG.'D.OOlenon."
  },
  {
   "n": 17,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p17.jpg",
   "text": "Po.ge 16\nConference on AERIAL PEENO\nCo dr. :.:mdelkorn: Id 11\nto remove that temporary sta\n.. t e.oo t the\nArmed Foreca Speci l\neaponn Proj ct; ire srcn•t lo.ughing •••• (record blank\nfor minute or tYO) •\nDr. Bradbury: Rone of ua ~\nexpe;rts in this field, 110 ,re e oentially he.ve\nto believe what ve ere told. I CJUiPPOOe if you try to look for logl.co.l\nCY.pl.alIDtions, there ore probably\ne.\nDr. LaPa.z:\nI w-ould like to ask. one queetion here - unleea you feed pover into\nbody\nO'\\i ng into a horizontal po.th, can it preserve eseentialJ.y a horizontal.\ntr jectory? A pls.ne doeo it; ttet oriteo don't do it; show curves na the\ncnerBY f'olle OJ.f. This thing apparently ignores air resistance and gravity\nd goev bll &f'ulll on its '78.Y'····•·· ••••••\nDr. Teller:\ns far s stmightnees of the path io concerned, if' you have a\nnetcorite thnt you have obs rved for 10 occondo, and 1n theo 10 seconds 1t\nha gone e.diatence of 100 miles, it will have :fallen in th1 distance 1/3 of\na mile cn:l now I\nould 11\nto dtlre any observer to tell a CUI\"V3.ture ot thin\nkind - beco.uoe you are completely UIIprepared tor th ph~n.\nDr. LaP z:\na it love down, it curvaa toward the bottom.\nDr. Teller: But appsrently before it ha.a happened, olOl.-ed doun too much or\nc ploded or o::ething, HZJd then it hao disni,p2&1\"0d-\nEov th\" •••• point is,\nof cource, i:P 1t has no po er 1t m.ll sl0l1 clovn, but I do not lmov hOlr quicltly\nvou .ould have to stimate th.et; furthermore., the rate at 'tlhich it slows down\nvi.11 depend very much on the question wether it lw.o been st a 10 mile Bltitud~\nor a. ,l() mile altitude.\nDr. LePaz• Th elevation\ntm.atea arc very concordant on these, nru1 I doubt\nt ~-ou vill be eble to change that el.ev tion of 8 to 10 milco by\nry much.\n'l'hcac ere the real. p th obaerve.tiono that I have nentioned..\nDr.\nller: Well, can you\ny.......do you think ~hing e&1 be mud about\nt?\nDr. Le.Paz: I doubt it. Th eye, of cou.roe, ia not a sood. opeedameter. You\ncnn t det ct a chrulge.\nAt 1 st, I did not 1n the one observation that I\ne,\n8ll.d no Gu.ch clmnge has been reported. ln the case of those \\1ho observed the\ngreen f'ireballa, o y that neor the end o~· the Texna tirebsl.l po.th of January 30\n1t w.s noted that the f'reoients moved out leiaurely to the point t which there\npp{\\l'e?ltly l.cs velocity, a.u eh.ow by them on the green fireball it£el.f.\ny I mention, hmrever, thc.t 1n the case of the normal I:1eteorite foll that\ncurvature in the path, the traru;ver e verticol., ia one of the aoet ai,pm-ent.\nYou ace that 1n the ceoe of~ larBe, ordinary detonation fireball tall even\nthough it\ny not produce . . . . . there 1e e. tendency to curve.\nDr. Teller· What !1:bout total l1gbt.... Hov doe!) the brishtne c C0:lip8.l\"'e to the\nbr ghtn aa of the meteoritea that co\ntro:n a moteort"
  },
  {
   "n": 18,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p18.jpg",
   "text": "Conf'e:rence on AERIAL Pml:NC>MENA\nPagc 17\nDr. L~.Paz:\nTo. tbe case of the Texa.a fall., thie is very rough; I didn't see\ni ·c, I can only bs.se an estimate eey on the comparisons that -were made with the\nmoon e.o to size and total intensity. In the case of the Texao fal.l it 'li'Ould\ncertainly be com:puable to - it va.s one of the brightest observed f:treballs\nia ·t;otal. intenuity . . . .\nIn the case o:f the Sto.rvation Peak incident, we can\ncompare it w\"lth Vemis which was conveniently located, e.nd 1t eert.'3.inl.y ,,as or\nl'Jtellar mae,uitude minus 4., possibly a little brighter. That comparison was\n?Dade aJ..,.zoct immediately after the obs~rvation.\n. ....\nMr. Hoyt: It ws very bright a.nd clee.r that night.\nDr. Teller:\nYou saw it at 6 o'clock?\nMr. Boyt: At five minu·tea to eix. Very, ve_ry clear that night.\n(ciitc;h digger., in between ditcn digger, a. tw coherent remsrks:)\nDr..Hanley: In 1945 or 1946 I observed practically the same thing ao in this\nle·tter.\nWe thought it vas a roman candlo. Definitely light green in color.\nI am still 1;,crried about the fact that they don't report ~\ngreen color 1n\nthese :tallE.\nDr. Bred.bury: Lack ot noise, lack of ...., the lack of these things wOUld be\n. qually astounding for o.rry Jllaterial object....•.\nDr. LaPa.z:\nDr. Kapl.E.n suggested the poas1bil1ty or the same sort of phenanenon\nthat he cculd produce experimentally in hio laboratory . • . • snd he tells me\ntmder certs.in eonditions he can produc-e a globe or lamps of yellOT-Jisb.--e;reen\nlight • . . • .\nHe conjectured ~or a m1nt.te that that might have eome rele.ti011 •\nan artificial aurora.\nComdr. M:llldclkorn: As long &s you brought that up, MaJ. Johnson bao a letter\nI obtained from Gen. Bunker vhich ma,y be pertinent. Gen. Bunker transmitted\nthe inf'ormation you•ve heard to the Air Materiel. Carmnand, and in reply received\nn letter f'rom e.n Air Force General vho recently returned tran AlD.eka. I'll\nlet Dr. Le.Paz read this.\nDr. LaPaz: This ia closely related to 'What I was talking about. It begins:\n\"Dear Bunker: Received your interesting phenanena 0'f l. J'ebruary and p:romptly\nturned it over to Boward . . . . now eaddled. v1th the responsib1lity of clues.\nRegard. as coiucidentol. that on dates JOU mention Gen. Carroll vas in\nFairbanks, AJ.ook;a., and on his return r-el&.ted tbat he bad never seen be:tore\nin his lite such a beautitul technical dieplay of Wa:rthern Lights. I~e\nv.aat these people have seen ie a reflection fra-.i the •••• ~ these pyro­\ntechnics. So -ra.r ais we know., it ie etill phenomena and not ma:torial. Best\nRegards~ Paul\"."
  },
  {
   "n": 19,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p19.jpg",
   "text": "Conference on AERIAL PHENOMENA\nPage 18\nDr. LaPe.z: J'..ay I mske the observation t-hat if you look in the chapter by\n.••.•, you~ll find that in Alaska where this observation was reported, there\nare very few times s.t this season of the year 't.,hen you can•t see an 11urora.\nDr. Teller: I have the feeling that it is . o.. eith.er a discovery in physical\npsychology or .....\nDr. La.Paz:\nI thought that psychol.ogical element ,101,.wl come in here!\nDr. Telle:;:-: Here is a slightly irrelevant question - you brought 1n the fly­\ning discs. What is the connection?\nDr.. La.P~-~:\nI didn~t bring in the flying discs.\nMr. neuburger: I brought in t.he matter ot the f'lying discs because the Air\nForce, a.a I tmderstand, now have claesed the flying d1sos and these fireballs\ninto one category.\nCaptain Neef: •... The ODl.y indication we be.ve is a l.etter from MAC in\nWaohington Saturday where they indica.tGd the old project Sign is ~\nproject\nGrudgo, which includes the phenome:oa observed in Rew Mexico.\nThey knew or\ntbis meeting and were ~oing to send a represcm.tative.\nDr. L&Paz:\nI Just asked Mr. Hoyt a moment o.go how he would c<Dp&re the\nbr1ll.ence of this obJect with that of an aircra.t't f'lare. Be said they were\nof comparabl.e ~tu.de. I think that was def'initely ruled out .•.•.\nDr. Teller: I Wlderstood that e. reasonable explanation of the flyag discs ­\nalld I suppose ·chat it ie generally know - is that they ar& meteorological\nballoons••••• I underste.nd that in quite a number of cases there have been\nvecy close directions established. . . . . .\nI mwrt say that ~ram what you have\nt5e.id, it certs.inly sounds like eveeytbing el.ee but meteors.\nThe th1zlg that\nimpresses 1D.Q 1s your evidence of the horizontal flight. Meteors do not\nuaual.ly come in like that..... .\n(mumbled tel.k be-tween Drs. Bradbury and Teller)\nCap·l.ain If f:\n...... Change of direction such that ve haven't\nen abl.e to\nfollov 1t up yet.\nOne of our men vus returnuag Sumay night vhen our tover\noperator aav this object to the Southwest from Kirtland Field am ....\nArizona reported it was Southeast from them. F'rom. the ltirtland tover it was\na bronze color. The time checlta, but frcn .•.. Arizona it w.s green until\nit turned straight down and ve·e-rea. Soina , . . •\nDr. LaPaz: Dr. Teller, mq I mention this one other instance that ebcnrs\nmaybe ,my I have more concern than is lilerited by the evidence I am able to\npresent. I deal Yi.th Vic Regener and I knov that the physicist doesn't like\nto work vitb anything that ca.nit be photographed.\nI share that view but a\nmeteorist is not available s~times to photograph shooting stars, even the\nconventional type.\nDurillg the war I vna acting as Director of the Ohio Section"
  },
  {
   "n": 20,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p20.jpg",
   "text": "Conference on AERIAL PBFJ.q<L:lENA\nPaae 19\nof ·the American Moteor Society and s1l at once we began -oo get reports of\nlarge n1.llllbe1•a of stntiomry fireballs; not moving.\nThe burst was there, but\nno motion.\nNow one \\.'ho observes normal conventional fireball falls is aware\nof the fc.ct that not lout of say 500 shove actual fixity; there io always\nmotion. So, thiG looks very, very strang • Of course, you all kno't1 what\nthose stationary fireballs turned out to be. They v~re the self-destructive\ndevices on Japanese paper balloona ope:raung.\nYou bad a. ~gen filled sphere\nvi.th a tw•cro,m raaak of magnesium flash•lisht powder.\nADd. when the ma.gnesium\nand the hydrogen uent off tcsether, you could 13ee it tor a long way.\nWe got\nstationary fireballo but they certainly wel\"e not meteoritic. My experience\nsince I w.e auopected of psychological apparitions at the tilna I reported the3e\ns-ce.t:lona.ry fireballs to, tor example, Dr. Kamplan, my experience vith .... led\nme to be very cautious e.bout tak:lng '1lfY concern ..••. but at the seine time I\nfeel that we shouldn't be -too hasty in gl.viDg a natural e.xple.nation to thece\ngreen f1reballs.\nDr. Teller: ..... but I vould lik~ to ask, these phenomena a.re a:pparently\nquite bright, more luminous than normal meteorites7\nDr. La.Paz: Well., the .1ElllU!!l\"Y' 30th o}le wo; I vouldJ;l.•t say 1,hat a.bout the one\nI eaw on December 12.. 'lila.t wne a very bright fireball., but not extraordinai:1.ly\nso.\nDr. Tell~r: What is the chance of' get•ting pictur~a?\nDr. LaPaz.: I rafer tp the one at't~t that was made on the night of December 19.\nWe set up a pho·togra.phic patrol - the AESS, as you. probably ltnow, has been\ninterest~ in this prqblem. ·They brou3ht a lot of sp0Cd graphics and so on\na.nd set th~ up. Mr. t~ll, a member of the group .•.., and they vere able,\nI th1Dk ~\nnight before., to photograph a. bright <Jem:lnate.\nBut on the night af\nthe 19th nothing we observed. The ne:tt night, however., the night of the 20th\nthere tme an iuciclffllt which I bel.ieve might have been photographed, but by that\ntime th~ equipment had been diesbanded and nothing w.o obtained. I chOuld think.,\nwith pN~r coverage, say 10 to l'JI,, of these should record themselves provided\nyou do not Uf.le ~en insensitive • . • . and film such as th3 ••••\nDr. Teller: Is the~ any possibility of having a wide coverage ot the sky\ntr-lggered 'by a pboto cell'f\nDr. La.Paz: I have 9-iscussed t.bat, for eDm!)le vith Dr. Reneger., who has been\nvery much interested i:a the apparatus, and bis answer is more or leas 1n the\nnegative. I uDd.er(Jtand that Cornell Un1versit;y • Ge.rtline o.f Cornell .. baa\np1'0duced some sort ot p.hoto-ele~tric tngger1Dg device ~ch bas been used in\nt):rl.s co:o:nection. I wrote him about it, asking tor reprints or 1nstnICt1one,\nbut neve~ received a reply.\nQuestion: Do you think ,-011 are going to find film eeJlGitiw to this gre~\ncolor fast en.ought We have sane that can't b lef-t out over 12 hours...••"
  },
  {
   "n": 21,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p21.jpg",
   "text": "Conference on AERIAL PBENOMENA\nPage 20\nDr. La.Po.z: It should be possible ..... The cO?tVentiona.l meteor cannot be\n:photogr :phed. e.t t.he pre~ent time. The so-called met.eorecbmitts that Harvard\nCollege .ts nou having produced at verJ great expense, they expect to go down\nto the 4th and poaeib~ fa.inter. l1ith one of those, a bright green :fii-eball\nmight be photographed, but they are not o.vaile.ble•.••..\nMl!. Devburger: Does a.nybody knov if ·chere were any experiments ce.rried out\nin Europe, prior to th',! w.r when our la.st beat information CGme tram over\nthere, al.pug this line?\nDr. La.Paz: Not tom::, knovledge. I raised that question with Dr. Kapl.e.n and\nhe gave me 8Qme? :rather arurprising information.\nDJ:. Kaplan had atteDded. the\nIAU meetings in Syria ? and the Russians had a large repres tation there.\nSm:\"ficiently large, as a matter ot :te.ct, to beat dam the proposal that the\nIAU appoint an international camnittee to investigate the so...called ••.••\nmeteorite crater procluced in the fall ot 1947, 1\"ebrua.ry 12.\nOn the contrary,\nat ·the Oswsl.d, I think it w.o, conference ot the International Geophysical\nUnion, none of the Russian geoph;teie1sts vere present. Kaplan'a interpreta­\ntion was that they feel ao far ahead ot us that they d1cm•t t.bink they oould\n1 am anything, and they were taking the precaution that no leak occurred.\n.\n•\nMr. Nwburger: Were the GemaM ex,periment11l8 1n UN phase tbat vas poaa1bcy\ncozmected with it?\nDr. LePaz: \"I-ell, t'lle'.Y had the ao•ce.J..J.ed otation.e in apace ••••• might have\nsome attachment to it.\nComdr. Mandelkorn:\nYou don't he.ve any record of ~nma.nts.\nDr. LaFa.a: Bo, no Jmowl~ of exporimenta•••••• I have the belief tllat no\ncountry in t\nworld has thqre b~cn meteoritics developed a~ it has in Ruoeia\nin .,\"eee:L\"t years. Recently, -the AcRdeny of Science of' the USRR has bf:en issuing\na so-called met~ritic, an eztraQ?!'d1nery publication - very little work of the\nca.liber being ~\n~ the Russians he.& been conducted in the United States.\nApparen·cly, there 1 t has big liN,P.POrt; hen, 1 t is c.n 1ndiv:td\\181 matter. UntU\nwe had some milltcry interest in meteori~ictJ, ve vere DeVer able to :round even\nan institute ill moteor1t1cs in the unite'1. States. The one 1n New Moxico is an\nout51\"mrth of application of meteoritics to determine, sq. ballistic eoetticients\nror shells ot unconventional.design like the p1'0Z1m1ty tuze shell w1tb the radio\n1n its nose, 811d that sort ot thing.' 'l'hat 0s vb.ere wie got a s~. Apparentl.7.,\n\"he Ruasians got that ~ller and have f'ull..fledged st&~ eupport.\nDr~ BoUO'U'&y:\nBov much interest would the mil:l.tary have if tbey found out\nthese 1ili,nge vere lancU.ng all over ~\ncountry, Cerllda., Bava11., ~tc.? .....\nHave you contact6d peopl.e in the East1\nDr. La.Paz: Olivia, C. C. Olivio., President of the Amerie&11 Meteor Society,\nKi~, Leone.rd, Pruitt, Xapl.an, tc.\nMQet o£ them have been obsem.ns;\nKaplan, I 1.!uagi.ne, bas not, 'because h~ is JJOW preocc'1,Pied vi.th labo.ra.tory\n.\n."
  },
  {
   "n": 22,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p22.jpg",
   "text": ", .\nPage 21.\nConf'erenee on AERIAL PHENOMENA\nel..\"P~r1litents.\nI think that if anyone o~ the UCLA Institute of Geoph;ye1cs had\nb~n observing., it wuld have gotten to Kaplan's ears..•.•• There are two\ngreat advantages ·i;o this area: 'f1rat, you have clear skies at night and can\nobserve them as they come dawn., and second, (record blank tor minute or two).\nDr. Hollm,ay: ..... this 'W8.8 before the war. They bad a tel.ephone network\nwhich covered a fair section ot the Eaat there. • •••• o. network so that your\nobeervatione . . . . .\nmention\nindicate,\nk:noY wat he\nI\nt h i s t o\nI\nd o n\ni s d o i , g\nQt\nnow, but at least they- may ~ve a group ot people who ba:tte been observing.\nMay uot be in a position to . . . . . green fireballs, but the7 might have seen\nthem.\nDr. LaPaz:\nMy one attempt to contact . •... arid. unfortunately I did not\napproach b1m age.in for 1ntormat1on, but someone acquainted vith him should\ncertainl.y ask~ they have observed any of this sort ot thing tbe~.\nComdr. Mandelkorn: Well, wouldn't phenomena or this nature have been reported\nto tho Society, no ~tter where they had occurred?\nDr. L&Paz:\nYeo, l would think so. For exampl, you can consult the so-called\nmeteor notes of the Amer\"tcan Meteor Society, and popular aetronotQy, they are\npublished from mo~th tp month with the President, c. C. Olivia, Director ot\nthe Florida Ob. rvatory at the University of Pennsylvania. I've been through\nthose very caretulJ.y. Tb.er 18 one single solitary case of a fireball which by\none ot the observers - a doubly observed fireball - 80 it was possible for me\nto ....\nwhich one of the obeervora mentions a green color. Bot this peculiar\ni n\nyellow-green vbich moat people in that vork find unusual, and in the ea.se of that\nthe elevation determined is of the order of, ob 199 kilometers from the beginning\npoint and rqushl¥ 100-tor the end, so I th1Jlk it is only an ordi.IID.ry fireball;\nnothing unusual about it. Tb.at was the only caee I found.\nComdr. Mandel.koru:\nAocording to recent records, where the observation c~-­\ntions in other parts or the country satisf'actory? At least part of the time?\nDr. LaPar;\nWell, I infer tram the fact that ve bav\" had so much trouble out\nhere and the Eut has been bra.gging about its cllmatic ad.vantages, tbat probably\nduring the recent month.a, thq have had good observancy.\nI haven\"t attempted a\nfull eeale check on that.\nComdr. Mandelkorn: Le~•s put it thie var then: lave there been a au:tticient\nnmuber ot f'1reballs reported in the last:60 days 1n other parte ot the country\nto lead us to 1nf'er that bad some ot these occurred, they would have been\nreported?\nDr. LaP&z:\nI think that definitely 1e true. 'lo 'llJ:f knowledge, aa far as the\ncontacts JJve had with Olivia and so on, there wae uotbing out ot the nomal\nnoticed in the East, and in the South, ~hall ve aay as tar~ &$ White Sanda.\nWhether the H&l.-vard Obeervatory aetup observed arqth1Dg peculiar or not, I\ndon~t know.\nwe tried\naway to get\nutormat1on.\nWe ver.e\nby\nr i g h t\nt b a t\nt o l c l\nthe gentleman in cbarge down there, 1 1m sure this Vill be interest to you, that"
  },
  {
   "n": 23,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p23.jpg",
   "text": "..\n• •\nConference on AERIAL PBENOMl!l1'A\nPage 22\nit ,-,as 1mposaible to make an estimate of the approximate wave and engatroms\nwithout detailed spectroscopic equipment, wich he did not possess. So\nwhether the Captain e.otually cut out the spectrum charts and sent them to\nhim or not, I don't know, but it was considered.\nDr. Bn.dbury: W~ll, we're not COJD1J38 up vith ~\nbright ideas for you very\nfast.\nMr. Nevburger: 1'o, but a.a long as we .have the problem presented to you, maybe\nby ·thinking on thia, you will cane up w;i.th an idea! . . . . .\nOf course, you knov\nour entire connection _mth started vith Madelyn Gwynn Merchant back in 1946!\nDr. Le.Paz: Except 'for the flying discs, nothing tbat you could se.y ,rould cause\nm greater embarrassment! I have actually had conmun1cat1ons from Madelyn\nmyself'.\nDr. Teller: Your statement of' the absence of sound when this thing has gone\napparently overhead at the distance of 10 miles, within earshot ot people.\nDr. LaPaz: '!'hat seems 1ncomprehens1ble, doesn't 1t, Dr. Teller? I'm glad to\nhear you say that because that has been my teellng tram the begimu.ns.\nAnd\nwe tried desperately to get confirming evidence ,menever sounds were men ..\ntioned. No reports ~ve been obtained.\nDr. Teller: I must say that the admission in ffllich one could get •o•• typicel\nphenomenon 1 s aamethiDg in the light of ....\nDr. LaPaz: Kap~ told me be was going to get out one ot bis old blov preBeure\ntubes and begin experimenting as soon ae he returned from the UCLA, to see it\nhe could duplicate in any wa;r the descriptions we have g1ven him.\nDr. Hollovay:\nWhat sound does a. P-.2 make when it goes overhead?\nDr. LaPaz: I can tell you vb.at t!,.ey make when th~y came ~­\nComdr. Man~lkorn: I can tell you *t they make when they go overhead at\nthe height of about 1,000 yards. But anythu>g man-made that passes overhead\nat the heigltt ot 8•10 miles, at this ap~ed, could be inaudible.\nDr. Teller: You think it could be?\nComdr. Ma.ndelkorn:\nI think 1t could b~.\n'lb.e only .\nDr. Tf:ller: Even it it went at the speed. ot 10 m11,s pe2: eecond't\nComdr. MBndel.korn: Well,\nDr. Teller: You see, at that time, the ..... begins to c01111e up.\nDr. La.Pa&:\nYou bet it does."
  },
  {
   "n": 24,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p24.jpg",
   "text": "•\n:------•\nConference on AERIAL PHENOMENA\nPage 23\nDr.. l3radbury: .....\nDr . Teller :\nYou have to get a shock \\18.Ve out ot it. W1th a very t.miaJ.l object\nthe shock uave Vl?uld be emaller tban .. •. I ba.ve not .made colcula.tiona on it,\nbut it 0 s just common sense ... . •\nDr. Le.Paz: I 1t-ould like to ask a question. Ien 8t it true in the case ot t\noo-called light movement that you have very intense, luminous effects off tbem\nvithout noi~'l\n( talk between Drs. Bradbury and La.Pa!. too taot and too jumbled to\nbe traniscribed.)\nComdr. Mandelkorn:\nFrom what Dr. Tell r said apparently a solid object eon•\nverging with the atmosphere horizon·tally at o.bout 8 to 10 miles e.ltitude, 1tvs\ni ner dible that it wouldn 9t be accompanied by eome sort ot sonie phenomenon.\nDr. Teller! I w-ould like to repeat that to try to get sn estimate ot the si~~\nof the object, 'that it would have to have in order to get sound effects, 1e\nnot an easy thing, but offhand I WPul.tl. a~ - this ie wtiat I -woulcl. e.xpoct - that\nyou get a very small object, ,-a small as an inch or BDla4ler.\nDr. LaPaz: . ....\nDr. Teller: If I ral}elllber correctly, the :..ntensity, th~ amount of energy thnt\ngoes into a ohock wave is proportio~ to th square of the velocity.\nThe\nvel ocity tbat you have here proporti'onal to the square of the velocity and,\nof QOurse, is proport1.Qnal I sbould think probably to th' square ot the linear\ndimensions of the obJect tha't you bav~. Nov you hf;Lve 10 miles per eecond • ••\nvelocity you have 20 vdles per second~ AO this could be, on that count, ten\n·t;~es fainter .. t.be sound would be ten times fainter.\nOD the o\\lM!r band, a\nm eteor1te that you· will hear, I think, . • • • .\nthat much across J •• ••\n•\nl\n( too much cross ta.lk)\nDr. Teller: That i~ something we c0uld do right away. 1'ov I do not know,\ntried to get from you information on brightness, but I would like to ask again\nsome details ..• o •\nDr. l,aPaz: The brightest meteo;-1te tall 1n bistory, of Vhich ve have\nhistorioal. record, vae tbe .~. fall 1n 19()8, ~\n20 •••• est'-2na.tes the power,\nthe light power, of' that .was ot the order of 101 • 1019 ergs w aecOlld. In\nthe case of the Texas fall it wao prQbably not 100,0001;h as bright."
  },
  {
   "n": 25,
   "image": "https://wearenotalone.space/transcripts/doe-uap-d004/p25.jpg",
   "text": "•\n•\n.,\nConference on AERIAL PHENOMENA\nPage 24\nDr. Teller: Nov let • s try to get a check ot thie.\n(Dr. TelJ..er then spent approximately the next twenty minutes or so\nfiguring on the blackboard - estimating light, apeed, kinetic energy,\nshock wave, etc.)\nDr. ':reller: If' I can just believe ev~rything I have hel.U'd and put it together\nw1th vb.at I theoretically believe in, 1t ought to be a material body • might\nbe an electron. phenomenon.\nDr. La'?az:\nYou eee why rm puzzled, Dr. Teller. Nothing like this, to my\nknowledge, ha.a ever been observed in the case of meteorite drops.\nnr. Teller: It you go to a group like UCLA or sane other place where they\nhave a good eoUDd laboratory, they ought to be able to take the a.boence of\nsound observations - that ie definitely incompatible, assuming that you know\ntb.e.t there are .o. and assuming that they have heard no sound from this, they\nought to be ab:te to work an upper range upon the dgbt of the object which has\nbeen moving, end f'rom these figures I would be inclined to believe the obJeet\ncould probably not have a heat 'lot something'like l cubic centimeter. One\ncentimeter in dimension, and that in turn would not have given the blinding\neffect, if it vas a material object.\nDr. Bradbury: Wait a minute, I think yougve lett out something in light\neffects - you don't have to worry about kinetic energy. You can get your\nlight from chemicals as well.\nDr. Teller: That is correct.\n.. ........\nMr. Nevburger:\nThis seemo to vind up the meeting.\nDr. Bradbury: St1.ll don¥t feel tbat the meteor stuft is out. The puzzling\nthing is the long horizontal path; also, absence of noise is puzzling.\nhgc"
  }
 ]
}